A 15 Minute Foreplay™ Conversation with Pierre Du Plessis

In this conversation Bronwyn Williams and Tumelo Mojapelo talk to Pierre du Plessis about the importance of having accountability partners in your journey. 

Bronwyn Williams: Hi, I’m Bronwyn Williams. We’re back with the Flux 15 Minute Foreplay™ Conversations where myself and my colleague Tumelo Mojapelo here with me today, are talking to thought leaders, as much as that’s a terrible word, from all across the world who have good ideas with regards to foresight, strategy, and future thinking.

And today we have with us Pierre du Plessis and we wanted to ask Pierre one question in particular and that is how can leaders build a support network around themselves to help actually achieve their future goals? So here we’re already talking about actually accomplishing our best laid plans and why it’s so important to have people around you who support you and challenge you along that journey. 

So Pierre, what are your thoughts around building and finding people as a leader to surround yourself with? Is this important and if so how do we go about doing that? 

Pierre du Plessis: How do we go about it? Hi, Bronwyn and Tumi. Thank you so much for having me. This is always exciting and fun to talk to with you guys. So one of the sad realities of life right now is that we live in what has been termed the lonely century and loneliness is on the rise across the board and across all generations, not just in the elderly where one would usually expect it but even in children and teenagers as well. And also with founders, so we do a lot of work with founders and they are exceptionally lonely. So about 70 plus percent of founders are solo founders so they don’t have a co-founder, they don’t have a partner and they go at it alone. And human beings are tribal creatures, we’re pack animals so we need one another in order to survive. It’s a very kind of base instinct to group together as you know as a pack and it’s very important then that you have these relationships to support you as a leader or as a founder, a business owner or just as a human being. 

So one of the sort of proposals that I’ve made a couple of years ago is that there are four relationships that you need. Somebody ahead of you, somebody behind you and then two people on either side. And these four relationships consist of one, a mentor. So somebody that mentors you in your business, in your life, in your finances or you know whatever kind of area you want, spirituality or whatever, a mentor somebody that you admire, that you normally seek out and go and ask and find or pay if you have to and then the person that you need behind you or below you is a disciple or a follower, somebody that you’re in turn mentoring so you’re receiving and giving at the same time and especially in a space like Africa or South Africa where we have a very high sort of unemployed or unemployable youth, like, in mentoring is a very, very important, important part of keeping our society stable and actually moving forward, so having a mentor and then being a mentor, so those are two relationships.

And then the third one is having a best friend like a peer, like somebody that is on the same sort of level as you are, the same status, the same social kind of circle, that sort of person, somebody that you can be vulnerable towards that can help you carry your burdens, somebody that you can share all your struggles with and somebody that you can sort of like party with and have fun with as well,l so somebody that’s on the same journey as you is really important.

And then the fourth one is the most interesting one. This is somebody in your life that is a stranger or somebody that is not like you, so somebody that’s not the same race or the same culture or the same sexuality, same religion as you are and that person, the purpose of having a close relationship with that person is they can show you that you are not… you are not the norm, that you are just as weird as anybody else and that you need to, kind of, build these relationships across all these kind of social boundaries of ideas so that we can actually also then build like a more cohesive world and move our world forward.

So those are the four ones, so for me they function like a little checklist. So I always think, like, do I have a mentor in place? Do I have somebody that I am mentoring? Do I have a best friend, a peer or a group of peers? And then do I have people in my life that aren’t like me, you know, people that are strangers or others but people that would influence me in a different, new way, and challenge my views. So those four things are like a checklist and I, I believe and feel it’s been really helpful for me, to always have those four in place and when I don’t have one of them I make a point of intentionally going and seeking out that relationship and then building that relationship. So yeah, that’s what I think, I think those things are vital for leaders and for founders to have in their lives in order to be able to be healthy and then move forward and be successful. 

Tumelo Mojapelo: Besides being healthy, why would you need those four individuals in your life as a family? If you’re a founder you’ve got so many things that you’re worrying about, you’re literally just like, you know, your bread and butter issues, your day-to-day challenges, maybe paying employees, whatever it is, right? There’s so many things and then you still have your own personal responsibilities at home so why do you need those four people when it seems like your life is full and you’re literally playing a juggling act? 

Pierre du Plessis: I think you need people to help you juggle, that’s for a part of it and you need advice and you need learning and you need wisdom, especially fundamental, and you need a space where you can give, I think, our…  our humanity only becomes fully realised when we give and when we share so when we keep everything to ourselves then we don’t become very good people. And if you want to be a good founder or a good leader then becoming who you are supposed to be is actually the biggest invitation of all because that’s what the world really needs.

If the space that you are creating from and building from is not a space of sort of who you really are, who you really supposed to be then it’s sort of a half-baked thing and then the only way that we develop and we grow as human beings is in relationship to each other so those relationships are vital then for you to become who you are so that you can build the thing that we all need. 

Tumelo Mojapelo: What if you can’t find these four people because like you say, we’re lonely, we’re stuck in our ways, right, and you’re in a crisis…  which one out of the four would be the most important person to think of, considering or intentionally seeking out first, because let’s say, let’s say it’s me, I’m just chilling, I want to start a company, I’ve started company, I’ve become a bit of a recluse and I’m like, oh this is great insight, right, which one out of the top four is the one that I need right now? Like which one is the most…  is the person that I need to seek out first? Is it the mentor? Is it me trying to mentor someone else? Is the person who is different to me or a peer walking the same journey, you know? And we just share our experiences and lean on each other…  which one of these four would be the one that you’d seek out first?

Pierre du Plessis: Yeah, that’s a, that’s a really interesting question because I don’t really…  resist … resisting in ranking them. I think there are times in your life when you need different people at sort of different levels of strength but I would imagine if you have nothing which is… would be really weird…  it’s, like, to start with a best friend, with a peer, somebody that’s then equal to you and maybe a mentor and a mentor is an easier one to find because you can pay somebody to be a coach or to be a business coach or somebody so you can just sign up for something which you need as a…  especially as a leader, as a founder, you need somebody to kind of just guide you through all those uncertainties… 

Tumelo Mojapelo: So you just mentioned, so you saying we’d pay for someone, would it be different, would you experience be different if you paid someone to be a mentor versus if you had someone maybe in the circle in your field or in your industry that you reached out to and developed a relationship with, without actually having an exchange of remuneration or anything or like paying them for it. 

Pierre du Plessis: I don’t think so. I think sometimes with, with the mentorship relationships that I’ve been in, the ones that have sort of naturally formed but they always are ones that I initiate so I would go and ask people, like, would you mean to me, would you be my mentor and sometimes it’s something that I’m… and you pay for and sometimes it’s more on a kind of a friendship type basis and I find both are sort of equally valuable. 

I think the ones where there is an exchange there is an expectation of value as well so they tend to drive forward faster. Where ones that are more based on a relationship tend to be slower but they tend to be obviously longer lasting and maybe a little bit deeper, so it depends what you want. Sometimes you just need advice for a season and you need to set up something or start something, a certain stage or stage of business, you need somebody to help you with this stage then it’s just easier and simpler and more effective to just get a really good coach. 

Tumelo Mojapelo: So about these four people, does accountability have to do with anything, like, can they also hold you accountable besides just guiding you along the way, cheering you on, showing a different perspective to life and especially if you’ve made a pledge, now you said as an individual I’ve decided that I’m going to pursue a certain course of action, right, how would these individuals or having them in your life or in your corner enhance your… maybe not accountability…  but keep you on track, so help, help you stay accountable, not yourself but to them and keep you on track to reaching that goal or that vision that you have for yourself or your organisation. 

Pierre du Plessis: Yeah I think accountability is a good word, I don’t mind that word at all, I think that it’s necessary because often we sort of make plans and goals and just having somebody that you check in with on a regular basis who wants two weeks or whatever, it is that’ll ask you the question so how far are you on your plan, on your goal, on your dream? That is really powerful to have somebody to kind of report back to you, not in a negative way necessarily but in a positive way so it helps keeps…  it keeps you on track because you realise it makes really good, meeting with our mentor and they’re going to ask me, like, so what did you do and I don’t want to arrive there and have, like, nothing to say so it’s uh… it’s good to be accountable. I think that’s the power of groups. 

Tumelo Mojapelo: Is there a negative side effect to having these four people around you? Can there sometimes be a bit of a distraction or can they hold you back? Could they…  could they impede in your progress, um, have you ever seen instances when this has happened? 

Pierre du Plessis: Yeah, well, I uh…  human relationships are messy, people are weird and they fight and they misunderstand one another and they have uh… sort of, you know, broken parts to them and people with broken parts tend to hurt one another so relationships are messy and that’s sort of part of parcel, like you, you can’t…  it’s the, it’s the risk that you take so you can’t have a good relationships, relationship, if you’re not prepared to risk um…  that’s sort of part of it so they do go south but then it teaches you how to forgive and you know how to talk through difficult things and how to move on and yeah. 

Bronwyn Williams: I’ve got a question in terms of now finding these sorts of people. You’ve got to find the right sort of people too, people that will challenge you and stretch you and act to sort of like grist in the mill to drive you forward as opposed to surrounding yourself with um… sycophants right, like there’s the…  there’s the risk in terms of getting these people beside you, not choosing someone that’s quite as challenging as, as possible, saying oh, they’re slightly different to me, this, this is…  this is challenging enough and choosing a mentor that doesn’t pull you and a mentee that doesn’t push you forward. How do you, how do you resist that, how do you surround yourself with the team that will help you become the best person possible and achieve your big scary goals as opposed to people that will essentially support you in staying exactly where you are? And I think that’s really challenging and that’s the difference between these sorts of relationships and perhaps your more care-based relationships at home…. let’s say your spouse or your parents or your children which are serving a different purpose. So we’re talking about, sort of, our professional lives and self-actualisation, how do you find that squad, to that team and how do you make sure that you’re actually pushing yourself or choosing people that will push you and pull you as opposed to just cotton wool you? Because I think that’s also a risk particularly for leaders in bigger organisations where people, people, do tend to tell you what you want to hear as you gain more power and wealth and influence in society, right? 

Pierre du Plessis: Yeah, that’s really that’s true. I think it’s a challenge and that, that also depends largely on you because all of these relationships go…  go, go both ways so are you the type of person that’s also going to push somebody else you know, are you gonna or are you just gonna sort of swab them and like swaddle them up and can I keep them safe, are you the type of person that’ll do the same and then for me? So it’s in…  there’s an intention about it that I think is important but what do you really want and like it’s almost like finding these types of relationships is really… almost like conducting interviews in a way, in a, in a sort of, like, curating them and selecting them realising being honest to yourself what do I really want out of these out of these out of these relationships and how do I communicate that I think the one, the only one that’s maybe a little bit more tricky is the the two ones on the side, the stranger and the friend because those are sort of equal relationships so those become… that becomes very weird about setting, sort of, terms of the relationship but at the same time you can really open and honest with your, with your friends about what you want and how you want to be sort of helped and challenged and all those ideas so it really does come down to you and also the way you act with them if you’re not challenging them, they’re definitely not going to challenge you. 

Tumelo Mojapelo: Thank you so much Pierre for your time and just sharing these four little friendships of the ring group that every single person needs to have around them in order to achieve their goals or be held accountable for any decision that they make. For those who are watching please continue to follow these conversations, share, subscribe, like and join us for future 15 minute conversations, thank you.

By Flux Trends 

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